tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post8489140854000203600..comments2024-03-24T09:28:42.755+01:00Comments on CJ on Mathematics and Science: Does an Undetectable "Greenhouse Effect" Exist?Claes Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-80607954001502158852016-02-04T09:57:51.765+01:002016-02-04T09:57:51.765+01:00I see you can buy high power tuneable Far infrared...I see you can buy high power tuneable Far infrared lasers for spectroscopy or medical use. So you can easily test if narrow bands of low frequency IR are able to heat objects. All you have to do is take the lowest frequency IR produced by a cold object and test if it heats a hotter object that can emit that frequency.Andrew Juddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17556323062946182741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-2326006175741059302016-02-03T23:23:46.810+01:002016-02-03T23:23:46.810+01:00I see you can get commercially available tuneable ...I see you can get commercially available tuneable far infrared lasers for infrared spectroscopyAndrew Juddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17556323062946182741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-59825936419488955252016-02-03T11:24:17.560+01:002016-02-03T11:24:17.560+01:00Frequencies produced by cold objects are produced ...Frequencies produced by cold objects are produced in *greater* abundance by hot objects. We can therefore direct "analysed" beams of that 'cold' frequency with great intensity upon hot objects and show one way or another if that frequency can be absorbed.<br /><br />From a "folk lore" point of view if you direct massive wattages of IR of a particular frequency upon an object that is known to be able to emit those frequencies it might be supposed it will become very hot indeed. <br /><br />We know that low temperature objects produce smaller quantities of an Ir frequency than hot ones do. Therefore a hot object will always produce more energy than a cold one can for that frequency.<br /><br />We seem to be talking about energy quantity here rather than frequency. <br /><br />Andrew Juddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17556323062946182741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-9116140408503854902015-06-08T12:15:37.805+02:002015-06-08T12:15:37.805+02:00No C-G: Reflection does not require any oscillator...No C-G: Reflection does not require any oscillator; it is sufficient that the stone is completely rigid, which is a fair assumption concerning a stone.Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-79344314926143787142015-06-08T10:19:17.595+02:002015-06-08T10:19:17.595+02:00Dear Claes,
As I have pointed out to you before, y...Dear Claes,<br />As I have pointed out to you before, you have a problem with your 'stone-in-the-sunshine' example. You claim that the stone has no oscillators correspondning to the high temperature oscillators characteristic for the sun. Therefore the stone must absorb. The empirical truth, however, is that the stone also reflects a fair fraction of the incoming radiation. You then have the problem to explain how this reflection is created by the object! In the absence of oscillators - it is impossible.<br />C-G. RibingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-82788075424589078462015-05-29T11:02:37.273+02:002015-05-29T11:02:37.273+02:00Time will tell. Maybe you are right, or maybe you ...Time will tell. Maybe you are right, or maybe you are wrong. I don't think that Feynman means that it is meaningless to try a new approach to an old problem which never was satisfactorily resolved. In any case I am pursuing a theory that is computable and if something is computable then it can be tested against observation. Too much of current physics including multidimensional wave functions, and even worse string theory and multiverse, is uncomputable and then testing is impossible and then only lofty theoretical arguments remain, and that is what Feyman does not like. If you don't like what I am saying, why don't you use your energy on something else than trying to stop my investigation by dirty words which add nothing of interest.Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-21059565465875506362015-05-29T08:11:30.773+02:002015-05-29T08:11:30.773+02:00So you disagree. Why can't you just say that i...So you disagree. Why can't you just say that instead of playing on vague fucking innuendos impossible for interpretation. That's the worst kind of science imaginable. Feynman said it quite clear in his lectures that's been called The Character of Physical Law (you can find them on youtube)<br /><br /><i>Another thing I must point out is that you cannot prove a vague theory wrong. If the guess that you make is poorly expressed and rather vague, and the method that you use for figuring out the consequences is a little vague - you are not sure, and you say, ‘<b>I think everything’s right because it’s all due to so and so, and such and such[,] do this and that more or less, and I can sort of explain how this works …</b>’, then you see that this theory is good, because it cannot be proved wrong! Also if the process of computing the consequences is indefinite, then with a little skill any experimental results can be made to look like the expected consequences</i><br /><br />The really sad thing is that we will probably never see if your theory has any merit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-38903685255550544302015-05-28T18:13:22.758+02:002015-05-28T18:13:22.758+02:00In principle yes.In principle yes.Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-15699544984810133522015-05-28T18:12:17.753+02:002015-05-28T18:12:17.753+02:00I agree that atom-infrarred electromagnetic forcin...I agree that atom-infrarred electromagnetic forcing mainly involve electrons in outer shells.Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-39859082896291314392015-05-28T17:36:37.894+02:002015-05-28T17:36:37.894+02:00"Temperature is a measure of internal energy ..."Temperature is a measure of internal energy as the energy of <b>electronic</b> oscillators"<br /><br />This looks really weird. The vast majority of the electrons are in the ground state. It is the ions that carries the bulk of the energy through lattice vibrations. Or do you disagree?<br /><br />Unless it is a metal then of course, but then the excited electrons don't oscillate, they carry energy in the vicinity of the fermi-level.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-21772374495909820762015-05-28T15:59:06.655+02:002015-05-28T15:59:06.655+02:00Is there a temperature without an equilibrium?Is there a temperature without an equilibrium?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-45594364561085481342015-05-28T15:39:25.252+02:002015-05-28T15:39:25.252+02:00In it's present form can you with thid theoty ...In it's present form can you with thid theoty calculate the bandgap of silicon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-40541410232496668872015-05-28T15:30:16.265+02:002015-05-28T15:30:16.265+02:00Temperature is a measure of internal energy as the...Temperature is a measure of internal energy as the energy of electronic oscillators acting according to quantum mechanics. Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-26769898729299379212015-05-28T15:26:31.670+02:002015-05-28T15:26:31.670+02:00I base my considerations on a formulation of atomi...I base my considerations on a formulation of atomistic physics as Physical Quantum Mechanics exposed in a series of posts, with wave function depending on 3 space dimensions common for an atom with several electrons. This model has the form of a classical wave equation in 3d with the modulus of the wave function representing charge<br />distribution without connection to classical mass. This can be viewed as a semi-classical model including quantum effects expressed through a classical wave equation.Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-65248569267069981762015-05-28T14:38:16.921+02:002015-05-28T14:38:16.921+02:00So, how do you want it to be?
You have made a big...So, how do you want it to be?<br /><br />You have made a big fuzz that classical mechanics is the rational science, jada jada jada... And now it's not enough?? <br /><br />The estimation above from Jackson is classical, I thought that was what you were asking for. The reason to bring that estimation into this discussion in the first place is simply because your model in 'Mathematical Physics of Blackbody Radiation' is classical.<br /><br />The response above to Christopher Hoen-Sorteberg '28 maj 2015 01:24' treats phonons in a solid and that is inherently quantum mechanical. Notice though that it has the element of the adiabatic approximation in it, that approximation is of course assumed to hold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-91619389541685882352015-05-28T14:25:11.468+02:002015-05-28T14:25:11.468+02:00Ok, then you assume that you are in the thermodyna...Ok, then you assume that you are in the thermodynamic limit so that a temperature exists at all. That is a way to restrictive condition and forces the systems relaxation times to be short compared to the relevant timescale.<br /><br />A fundamental description doesn't explicitly treat heating as you think about it unless you go to the thermodynamic limit.<br /><br />Maybe this is the source for your great confusion.<br /><br />Thermodynamics isn't really that intuitive for you to use in case of radiative energy transport, obviously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-37697117735022824182015-05-28T13:57:45.749+02:002015-05-28T13:57:45.749+02:00Heating is a process in which the temperature, or ...Heating is a process in which the temperature, or internal energy in thermodynamical terms, increases.Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-22296430900988674872015-05-28T13:54:34.663+02:002015-05-28T13:54:34.663+02:00Please give your definition of heating.Please give your definition of heating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-79026310218400114512015-05-28T10:24:15.771+02:002015-05-28T10:24:15.771+02:00What is the heating effect of the process you are ...What is the heating effect of the process you are describing?Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-47204620888307447642015-05-28T10:23:33.604+02:002015-05-28T10:23:33.604+02:00If it is purely classical, then it is too narrow. ...If it is purely classical, then it is too narrow. Quantum mechanics is the mechanics of electronic oscillation.Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-55602550853026525102015-05-28T09:17:59.667+02:002015-05-28T09:17:59.667+02:00No. The treatment is purely classical.
This is ob...No. The treatment is purely classical.<br /><br />This is obvious if you understand the derivation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-30462758161834490252015-05-28T09:07:07.997+02:002015-05-28T09:07:07.997+02:00I think you are confusing mass oscillation with ch...I think you are confusing mass oscillation with charge oscillation, where charge oscillation is an electromagnetic phenomenon described by quantum mechanics and not a mechanical phenomenon described by Newtonian mechanics. Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-42472376950900413682015-05-28T08:45:24.556+02:002015-05-28T08:45:24.556+02:00The individual photon is a single quantization of ...The individual photon is a single quantization of the photon field as an excited quantum oscillator in that field with a certain momentum, angular momentum and energy. These are experimentally verified in the sense as currently the only feasible theoretical model that can explain a huge set of different experiments that started to be done since the 1980. Photon antibunching for instance that definitely rule out any kind of semiclassical theory where the electromagnetic field is a classical field and the matter quantum mechanical.<br /><br />If you are true in your question about individual photons you should read up on these experiments.<br /><br />Absorption is the process where a single photon in the photon field is anhilihated by transfering its momentum, angular momentum and energy to another system. <br /><br />This is what radiative "heat transfer" is on a more fundamental level from the current theoretical view. "Heat transfer" is put in quotes because this models works both on systems without temperature that are not thermodynamically well defined and systems that are in the thermodynamic limit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-77350674572928197142015-05-28T07:11:34.207+02:002015-05-28T07:11:34.207+02:00What is an "individual photon" and what ...What is an "individual photon" and what is the physical process of "being absorbed" and what does that have to do with radiative heat transfer?Claes Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-14141049566406559352015-05-28T01:26:39.084+02:002015-05-28T01:26:39.084+02:00And further just so we understand each other. You ...And further just so we understand each other. You did realize that the radiation mentioned in the estimation above is radiation in response to an accelerated charge? The radiation force mentioned is the "Abraham-Lorentz(Dirac)" force (a constant times the jerk), not the forcing! I think it is perfectly clear from the context but maybe it can be missed. What the estimation shows is that the <b>timescale</b> on which this force is important is lagging at least ten magnitudes to the <b>timescale</b> of the mechanical motion in the solid.<br /><br />This relates to the basic problem with classical electromagnetism that you typically separate an electromagnetic problem into two different classes. Either you separate into a situation where the external field is given and you calculate the response. Or you provide a charge distribution and calculate what field this charge gives. There can be some issues with causality when you try and solve a problem that is of the type mixed (as the one discussed). The estimation shows why and when you can separate your problem into one of the two types mentioned. Here it seems as we can separate the problem into one with external forcing and ignore the response from accelerated charges to at least a factor of one in 10 billion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com