tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post8370627494746498836..comments2024-02-29T11:22:30.853+01:00Comments on CJ on Mathematics and Science: Earth's Energy Budget With and Without Back RadiationClaes Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07411413338950388898noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-79954839683164095522015-03-01T14:34:57.001+01:002015-03-01T14:34:57.001+01:00The atmospheric window is actually 66 W/m2 as admi...The atmospheric window is actually 66 W/m2 as admitted in an email by Dr Trenberth to Dr Noor van Andel. If you add the evaporation (78 which may low) and the convective heat (24 which also may be low) the total is 168 W/m2 which is the same as that supposedly absorbed by the surface. Hence there is no additional surface radiation which could be absorbed by the atmosphere. In my experience with heat loss from surfaces, eg furnace walls, pipes and ducts etc, to surroundings and the atmosphere convection always exceeds radiation. Also from hundreds of process heat balances, the heat loss to surroundings has always been less than calculated from measured surface temperatures (radiation & convection) and air movement ( convection). Basically, the Stefan-Boltzmann relation does not work because there is no vacuum. As Baron Fourier wrote in a treatise when there is an atmosphere everything changes (or words to that effect). <br />You are right there is no backradiation and it can and has been proven.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1500584444083499721.post-88681177434032180492015-03-01T14:02:56.373+01:002015-03-01T14:02:56.373+01:00In my opinion, the “energy” budget is fundamentall...In my opinion, the “energy” budget is fundamentally wrong. It is not an “energy” (given in the energy unit Joule) budget at all, but a radiation calculation given in Joules per second and square meters ( J/(sm^2) = W/m^2).<br />First and foremost; the total solar irradiation (TSI) on the top of the atmosphere (TOA) ca 1368 W/m2 shall not be evened out over the whole earth in the second this radiation is calculated, but only over half of the earth. It is thus wrong to divide 1368 W/m2 by 4, instead the TSI shall be divided by 2. Thus the radiation reaching the earth surface in 1 second is twice that given in the figure; 236 W/m2 instread. Outgoing radiation, however, takes place over the whole earth and has been measured to totally ca. 242 W/m2. Calculating in this way eliminates the need for a “back radiation” loop increasing the temperature by +33 Kelvin. Besides in a radiation calculation the sum in minus out does not need to be 0, because some energy can be stored and released later (e.g. coal and petroleum).<br />For a real energy budget it is necessary to integrate radiation over time and earth area. Some climate science scrutinizers have done this, e.g. Joseph Postma, see http://principia-scientific.org/publications/Absence_Measureable_Greenhouse_Effect.pdf . Postma has shown that his calculation explains the temperature on the earth without “back radiation”. <br />Claes, your opinion on this is highly appreciated.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02410967642744666695noreply@blogger.com